Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:22:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Trekfan100@aol44.com
Subject: Space1999: ?? about Rules of Luton

Just to start a brief discussion...

Regarding Rules of Luton....I 'm wondering...What in the world was the Koenig
(or the  lame writer of this eppisode) thinking dragging that huge state
wround when he could barely stand up himself????

I was just watching this eppisode the other day...I usually fast forward most
of it & just enjoy the conversations between John & Maya...Anyone do this
also?

Colleen Bement   MBA#169



From: "Gregory L. Wilcox" (greggw@infinet44.com)
Subject: Re: Space1999: ?? about Rules of Luton
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:14:50 GMT

The hero always carries a big stick.  Thus the saying..
"Walk softly and carry a big stick".
The walk softly part so as not to alert your alien enemies.
And the big stick part so when the hero collapses he holds
up the big stick and the charging enemy impales himself on it.

I have many problems with this episode.

Where did the alien get the chicken wire to make a cage for Maya/Bird?
Why was the Maya/Bird stupid enough to fly within two feet of an alien with a bird cage?
What kind a judicial system allows three judges, even if they were pine trees,
to be over-ruled by daises, daffodils, petunias and other assorted weeds?

And is it me or does anyone else have this problem?

Every time I see this episode I keep hearing Yul Gibbons saying....
"Did you know a pine tree is eatable, most parts are you know?
That's why I like Grape Nuts Cereal!"
(Meant for the older crowd, you young pups are saying, Yul who?)

Back to Quake now!

Gregg Wilcox



Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 02:48:36 UT
From: Susan Lienesch (SUZLEN@msn44.com)

I agree completely-what was Koenig gonna do, chuck it at the aliens?  I can't 
believe they wasted expensive location shooting on that episode.  Still, there 
was a lot of fine interaction and character revelations in the dialogues 
between Koenig and Maya, and I must confess that I also fast-forward to the 
good parts.



Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: TRAVELTUBE@aol44.com

I think this was the episode that we saw tears actually coming down his eyes,
i think this was the only one, please correct me if im wrong Gary



Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:35:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marcy Kulic (mkulic@snark.wizard44.com)

> I was just watching this eppisode the other day...I usually fast forward most
> of it & just enjoy the conversations between John & Maya...Anyone do this
> also?

Yes! I can excuse the stick. After all he was wounded, maybe he wasn't
thinking properly. What annoys me the most about this episode is the
stupid "She'll be crushed" crap with Maya in the cage. She's turned
directly from one form to another in other episodes, so all of a sudden
she forgot how? 



From: "Peters, Pete" (BPeters@gwinnett.tec44.ga.us)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:12:39 -0400

PP:Wasn't the "She'll be crushed" crap "yuck" ;-) due to the fact that
Maya was forced to hold that form longer than her metamorphic safety
limit to keep from being injured. and that reversion to her humanoid
form while enclosed within a smaller area than her new expanded mass
would cause her, in effect, to be crushed?  I don't think it's that she
forgot how to transform but that it just wasn't in her best interest to
transform right then.  Would the plasticity of the metamorph process
ooze out between the wire and try to rejoin outside it thus trapping the
wire internally?  Would her new mass break the wire or would the wire
embed  itself into her flesh?  Does the process cause her mass to
grow/shrink or does the new mass just magically re-appear in this
dimension?  Is the weight proportionally the same as she grows/shrinks
or does it remain the same, meaning the space between the atoms is
removed and they are all crowded together as she gets smaller but still
the same number of atoms?
If she grows/shrinks then I believe the wire would cut her very badly as
she transformed.  If her mass suddenly re-appears at the new size I
think the wire would be inside her body

Questions, Comments, Threads?

CADMiester Pete
Chief of VRMDD (Virtual Reality Mech. Design and Dev.)
Alpha Moonbase




Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:40:10
From: David Welle (dwelle@online.dct44.com)

Well, Alphans, here's a few idle speculations on "Rules of Luton"...


Colleen (Trekfan100@aol.com) wrote:
>
>Regarding Rules of Luton....I 'm wondering...
>What in the world was the Koenig
>(or the  lame writer of this eppisode)
>thinking dragging that huge state
>wround when he could barely stand up himself????

Well, when they first got the stick, it was about the only weapon they had.
 Never really thought about it before, but now that you mention it, it
really didn't make a lot of sense to carry it around, considering how heavy
it was and how much it slowed them down.  Maybe Koenig thought Maya could
use it while in another form.  Maybe he just didn't think.  Then again,
didn't Koenig use it in the end?  Wasn't he about to kill the alien with
the stick, before sparing its life?

Still....


At 09:14 PM 04/13/97 GMT, Gregory L. Wilcox wrote
>
>Where did the alien get the chicken wire to make a cage for Maya/Bird?

The alien was wearing it from the beginning.

Maybe, on its own world, it catches and cages other creatures, and carries
them back home before cooking and eating them.  Or maybe their culture used
to do this, and wearing the cage is a sign of honor, which just happened to
be handy to capture Maya in this case.  Maybe.


At 09:14 PM 04/13/97 GMT, Gregory L. Wilcox wrote
>
>Why was the Maya/Bird stupid enough to fly
>within two feet of an alien with a bird cage?

She never displayed much intelligence while in the form of non-sentient
animals.  In 'The Exiles,' she turned into a panther (or some large cat),
scared the heck out of one of the Exiles, enough that she (?) dropped the
stolen stun gun.  Then Maya/cat just sat there while one of them slowly
picked up the laser and stunned Maya!  *Maya* ought to know that the stun
gun could harm her, but an unintelligent *cat* wouldn't know that.

It seems like she can only plant simple instructions while
transforming--but it always seemed to me (IMO) that Maya's own mind and
intelligence is *not* there, only the creature's own instincts with a few
relatively simple instructions (hold cloth scrap in claws, fly, find water,
drop cloth in water, pick it up, fly, return to human, revert).

OTOH, the creature's own instincts should have kept Maya away from the
alien--a falcon wouldn't have gone anywhere near some huge, threatening
creature!  But maybe he was hidden in some brush; or maybe she had to
'overwrite' some of the creature's instincts in order to add her own
'instructions,' and "forgot" to avoid danger.  Small brain, only so much
room, blah, blah, blah.

Like I said, idle speculation.  :-)


At 09:14 PM 04/13/97 GMT, Gregory L. Wilcox wrote
>
>What kind a judicial system allows three judges,
>even if they were pine trees, to be over-ruled by
>daises, daffodils, petunias and other assorted weeds?

The judges were about to have full scale vegetative revolution on their
hands!  Maybe some of the vine-like weeds would have risen up, grown around
the trees, and choked the trees and/or stripped them of their needles...  :-)


Colleen (Trekfan100@aol.com) wrote:
>
>I was just watching this eppisode the other day...I usually fast forward most
>of it & just enjoy the conversations between John & Maya...Anyone do this
>also?

Well, I don't fast-forward, because the episode was somewhat entertaining
(in a very mixed sense); but I definitely agree the conversations *were*
the best parts.

Sentient, judgemental plants.  An arena-type situation, with competition to
the death as determination of ultimate penalty or release.  Maya and John
trying to figure out a way out of what appeared to be a no-win situation.
Okay, hardly the newest ideas; but they could have been interesting and/or
exciting, if well-done.  Problem is, the episode wasn't all that well done,
IMO; it plodded at times, and had plot holes which cannot be adequately
filled (even with speculation such as the above).  On a scale of 0 to 4
stars, this gets a 2 (fair).  Maybe too generous, but it did have some
entertainment value and redeeming scenes, IMO.



Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:41:34
From: David Welle (dwelle@online.dct44.com)
Subject: Space1999: "She'll Be Crushed" (was ?? about Rules of Luton)

[This note, somewhat improved, is now located in the Commentary section as
"'She'll Be Crushed!' What Does It Mean?"]



Subject: Re: Space1999: ?? about Rules of Luton
From: djlerda@juno44.com (David J Lerda)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:05:26 EDT

>Sentient, judgemental plants.  An arena-type situation, with competition to
>the death as determination of ultimate penalty or release.  Maya and John
>trying to figure out a way out of what appeared to be a no-win situation.
>Okay, hardly the newest ideas; but they could have been interesting and/or
>exciting, if well-done.  Problem is, the episode wasn't all that well done,

It seems like every SF show of the past 30 years has to do a version of
Frederic Brown's "Arena."  The original Outer Limits, Star Trek, and of
course, Space: 1999 all did versions.  I highly recommend the original
story.  It seems to be a tried and true plot perfect for adaptation by SF
shows.  Just like "The Most Dangerous Game" is ripped off by every action
adventure series.  (Damn it, I can't remember the author's name of that
story).



Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:48:47 -0400
From: Patricia Sokol (sokolp@war.wyeth44.com)
Subject: Space1999: Rules of Luton

Thinking (very briefly) about The Rules of Luton:

This is probably one of my absolute least favorite episodes, because
even the good dialog cannot overcome what I consider an absolutely
preposterous premise.   However, I have never cared for any of the
Charles Woodgrove stories, even before I found it that it was Mr F.'s
nom de plume.  Not only do I not fast forward between the good bits,
but I think I fast-forwarded through the whole thing on the way to
whatever was on the second half of the tape.  The only parts I saw
were as I hit PLAY to see how far I still had to go.

Ranting about that aside, I still have some other thoughts about it -


Have you noticed that the trees change shape?  Thinner in some
scenes, broader in others.  A nit-picking point, yes, but it was one
of the first things I noticed.  Maybe they're throwing their branches
up in disgust.

Is it true one can see the sting pulling the vine along?  I seem to
recall this, but am not sure about it.

This episode has amazing similarity to ST:TOS episode, The Gamesters
of Triskelion (sp?).  Was this also penned by Charles Woodgrove?  
This is not the only example of similarities between ST and S1999,
Y2; New Adam, New Eve and Who Mourns for Apollo (I think that's the
name) are also similar in concept.  The difference is, Magnus was a
shyster. I know, I know, it's the executive producer thing.

Rules of Luton is not the only episode where Koenig gets teary-eyed,
to answer Gary's question.  Collision Course, Journey to Where,  and
The Lambda Factor are other examples, and maybe The Exiles, when he's
recounting the story of having left his friends on the Venus space
station.  As and aside, the connection between what Koenig tells
Helena and Tony about his friends in that episode, and the nightmares
he experiences in The Lambda Factor, was a great example of
continuity, breaking out of the mould of each episode happening in an
incidental, unconnected fashion.

Yul Gibbons on Luton, eh, Gregg?  Frightening concept, but the
potential for parody is good.

Pat.
(old enough to remember that most parts of a pine tree are edible)
sokolp@war.wyeth.com



Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:21:19 -0600
From: mpoindexter@classtrain44.com (Marshall Poindexter)
Subject: Space1999: Re: Maya's transforming abilities

>She never displayed much intelligence while in the form of non-sentient animals.
[....]
>It seems like she can only plant simple instructions while
>transforming--but it always seemed to me (IMO) that Maya's own mind and
>intelligence is *not* there, only the creature's own instincts with a few
>relatively simple instructions

As we've mentioned before in list discussions, there wasn't always very
good continuity in the use of Maya's powers from episode to episode in Year
2. Sometimes it seemed Maya knew what she was doing when transformed and
others it seemed like she didn't. Remember when Maya turned into a rock
near the end of "All That Glisters"? Her intelligence was very much
working; in fact she could somehow communicate telepathically to the
Commander and folks that "Red means death! Red means death!" (One of my
favorite, most campy lines in the entire series.)

So, to build on David's hypothesis, can Maya retain her intelligence as
*inanimate* objects, but NOT as animate objects like people or animals?
What about if she turned into a plant? It's living, but it's not
necessarily animate.

What do you all think? (I'm sure David will weigh in on this, too.)

Thanks, BTW, David for your excellent explanation of Maya's abilities. If a
S1999 movie is EVER made, I hope the producers contact you for background
info on Maya as a character!



Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:44:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Deborah Capuano (magneto@bc.seflin44.org)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Re: Maya's transforming abilities

> So, to build on David's hypothesis, can Maya retain her intelligence as
> *inanimate* objects, but NOT as animate objects like people or animals?
> What about if she turned into a plant? It's living, but it's not
> necessarily animate.

If I remember correctly she did in at least one episode. can't remember the
title, but she and Koenig were in an Eagle that had crashed somewhere, the
base was able to bring them back by remote control but there wasn't enough
oxygen for both of them (the crash had damaged the suits)...anyway, I 
remember they're back at the base, Helena and couple others are entering the
Eagle and a man says "where'd all this vegetation come from?" it turns into
Maya a moment later...



Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:07:52 -0600
From: mpoindexter@classtrain44.com (Marshall Poindexter)
Subject: Space1999: Re: Maya's transforming abilities

That episode was "The Seance Spectre" from Year 2.



Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:25:18
From: David Welle (dwelle@online.dct44.com)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Re: Maya's transforming abilities

>Sometimes it seemed Maya knew what she was doing when transformed and
>others it seemed like she didn't. Remember when Maya turned into a rock
>near the end of "All That Glisters"? Her intelligence was very much
>working; in fact she could somehow communicate telepathically to the
>Commander and folks

But that rock was an *intelligent* _life form_.  In general, I figure Maya,
while in another form, would be limited by the mental capacity of whatever
she was turning into.  In the case of the Rock in "Glisters," it was
intelligent; so when Maya turned into a copy of that form, she was able to
place her entire mind in the form, and use its capabilities, including the
telepathy.  She just wasn't strong enough and experienced enough in the
form to resist the fusion process.

>that "Red means death! Red means death!" (One of my
>favorite, most campy lines in the entire series.)

I have to agree about the sheer camp of the "Red means death!" line, and I
laugh every time I hear it!  I could imagine it taking a dozen takes for
Catherine Schell to say this with a straight face.    And of course they
had to pick *red*.  Why not "Peach is death! Peach is death!" or "Plaid is
Death! Plaid is Death!"

Uh, forget it... no way to salvage this line.

>So, to build on David's hypothesis, can Maya retain her intelligence as
>*inanimate* objects, but NOT as animate objects like people or animals?

Do you mean "inanimate" as non-living?  She could only turn into living
forms.  (Except I think one of the comics had her turning into a fire
extinguisher!  Must have been that life form on Nonacanoniak that closely
resembles what we call fire extinguishers...  :-)  It was made clear in the
series itself that she could only transform into *living* beings--and I
treat that as canon.

If you mean "inanimate" as in things like rocks and plants, well if it's an
intelligent rock or plant (suspending disbelief as needed :-), then I think
she *could* retain her intelligence.  Same for other people, such as fellow
Alphans; when she does this, it's definitely Maya inside, even if the
outside is someone else--she can act with full intelligence, as Maya.

Actually, I have more to say, but I can't finish it right now, so I'll save
it so I can at least get this reply out.

>What about if she turned into a plant? It's living, but it's not
>necessarily animate.

Oh, I see what you mean by "animate."  Maya as a (dumb) plant?  I doubt she
(meaning her mind and intelligence) would be there at all, except in the
most simple sense of still having the ability to revert.  Otherwise, she
probably just sat there and did nothing but photosynthesize.

>What do you all think? (I'm sure David will weigh in on this, too.)

Sure, I'll "weigh in" on this!  :-)  Anyone else?

>Thanks, BTW, David for your excellent explanation of Maya's abilities. If a
>S1999 movie is EVER made, I hope the producers contact you for background
>info on Maya as a character!

You're welcome, and thanks!  That *would* be quite interesting and fun!



Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:10:46 -0700
From: The Littl Shynin Man (labromm@unixg.ubc44.ca)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Re: Maya's transforming abilities

But don't I remember that once she turned into a bee and flew inside
some robot-monster's head and short-circuited it?  I don't think your
average bee could remember the mission, let alone short-circuit a
computer without getting cooked itself!

Mike



Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:10:06
From: David Welle (dwelle@online.dct44.com)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Re: Maya's transforming abilities

Good point, and good question.  I had to think about this, remember what I
had once thought up, and fill in all the gaps (I probably didn't get them
all, but anyway...)....

(The reference is to "The Beta Cloud," BTW.)

Maybe:  "Fly at big shaggy creature, fly into ear, walk around."

I don't think she picked any circuit boards.  Even once Maya realized it
had to be a robot, she couldn't have known exactly how it was constructed,
or even if she could *get* inside in the first place, much less encounter
anything sensitive enough to blow up when she'd walk around inside as a
bee.  She probably couldn't be sure she'd survive the attempt (although at
that point, she probably wasn't concerning herself about that).  And heck,
even if she *knew* what she were doing while a bee, she could have easily
been fried.

Maya's action amounted to a last, desperate stab in the dark, since
everything else that had been tried had failed.  Get inside the robot's
head (if possible), and *hope* to short it out. She was just lucky --
mysteriously fortunate, come to think of it.  

I wondered how she would know, while as a bee, what constitutes an "ear."
Well, Maya does tend to get those intense looks on her face just before
transforming.  I think that's not only concentrating on the form to turn
into, but what to do.  Maybe she was concentrating on the sight of the
robot monster's "ear" (in fact, didn't the episode itself make it evident
she was focusing on the ear?), so she would remember that image when
becoming a bee, holding that image as she turned from herself into the bee,
so that she could remain focused on that sight.  The robot of course moved
before she could get there, but she remained locked on that goal, and
eventually, after some buzzing, reached it.

Of course, the image itself would appear very different to a bee, given the
differences in its visual capabilities (compound eyes,
blue-shifted/ultraviolet vision, etc.).  But if she was concentrating on
the sight of the ear during the transformation, so to speak, she could
plant that destination directly into the bee-sized mind.  And bees are very
good at destination-directed travel, and are even able of communicating
destination information to other bees (okay, that's not what Maya was
doing, but the point is still that bees are pretty good navigators).

All IMO, of course (my 1.999 cents :-).  It's fun to speculate.  Did I make
any sense whatsoever, or am I way off?

Later....



Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:18:54 -0700
From: The Littl Shynin Man (labromm@unixg.ubc44.ca)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Re: Maya's transforming abilities

WAY too deep for me.  I'll just shut up from now on ;)

Seriously, I just thought the writers thought that their audience was
composed of stupid, undiscriminating SF fans, and so they didn't bother
to think these things through.

Mike